Then went to the Philippines in the Peace Corps. I was always learning songs. Came back and moved to the Bay Area. And that's the early part of this journey. BC: [ ] And we share a lot of that, but at a certain point you decided that you would make your own music, your own songs, and I'm wondering where that emerged, and how that flowered?
BR: [ ] It took a long time. I'm very slow to, I didn't start writing my own songs really until I was in my fifties. And A lot of other paths I sang with top 40 bands and bars and sang at a folk club called the Purple Onion in San Francisco and yeah.
And, I was always singing other people's songs and I tried to write songs, they were like love songs and I didn't like them. And I didn't really have my own voice. And then there was one year where all of these fantastic things happened. I started taking singing lessons from the wonderful jazz improvisationalist, Rhiannon. And she just opened this whole world.
Of hearing my own voice to me, and starting with vocables not singing words, but just like the Mockingbird I was listening to this morning, I was like,. I met her, I had two lessons and I knew that she had just given me a lifetime's worth. So, I met her, I started singing with Kate Munger and, that's another whole story. Kate is the woman who started the Threshold Choirs. But years ago, this was like 30 years ago, she had a group of women out in Point Reyes, and I would come join them. And we'd just sing on the full moons out on the shore, on Bay and we'd sing rounds from all over the world.
BR: [ ] Yeah, and I just, we came out in two, two trucks and all of a sudden, I just wanted to go off on my own. And they went up to Telluride and I went down to the canyonlands and just not having ever been there before, not knowing what to expect and started hiking in the canyons and I felt something there just in the pace of walking and being surrounded by such astonishing landscape, the immensity of the landscape, and then the intimacy of the little wildflowers that were there.
It just took me back to a place. I don't think I've been to I was a kid and the world was really alive to me. And so, all of that, I started singing back, just after I'd been walking for a while, I would just make up songs, and often not words often just S just responding to, to do what I felt around me.
And that's what really happened. It changed my, my, my music. BC: [ ] There's an old school practice that I think you and I probably both had, which is you go into a music store, and you flip through the albums that are stacked up. And you look at the names of the songs and the back of the albums and you look at who's in them. And so having spent time with your music, I feel like I am flipping through a book of specimens photographs, sounds, of a long, long walk through the obvious paradise that you avail yourself of out there in the world.
And there are times when I feel like I'm being introduced to your friends, your family in a sense. There's one of my friends, who's your friend, which is the Raven, obviously the monkey flower and the Cocklebur and the rivers and the stars.
At some points I'm feeling like I'm intruding—that this is a private moment. That's an important thing because sometimes it listening to your music, obviously the intention is to share it, but I feel like I'm in, in a sanctuary and I'd like you to talk a little bit about two things.
One of them is the round and what it means to you. BR: [ ] Oh, my mind is just so full of stuff, so, I will talk about rounds and where it started, then I started singing my own songs with other groups. Like I said, it's in the music. I just, I want to play just a little bit. BC: [ ] Good please do. BR: [ ] You were just talking about the Ravens, and it makes me those services song.
And we were walking along in the red rock and looking for some shade. And that's where this came from. Walking in the red rock,. So that's a round. And first of all the round, that happens to be a perfect vehicle for writing songs about cycles of nature. BC: [ ] yes. BR: [ ] And so this round started before I had any recording equipment.
All right. I, what does that mean? Is it waxing? Is it waning? Is It like old? And anyway, so I'm thinking about this, and this line comes to me. Where is the moon? And I went, oh, I better write that down. And later on, I was hiking with some friends, and I made them sing that part over and over again until I came up with the next and so forth.
But anyway, I want to play that for you so you can hear how it sounds when it turns into a round. BR: [ ] all right, so I'll play those for you so you can see how this alternate into, around.
BC: [ ] You don't mind if I learn that song, I love that, that's really beautiful. And it, in two ways. Obviously it's a great round, but the minute that the picture starts to emerge, the moon, and then, the question, okay, what's going on here? BR: [ ] Great. I know you like rounds. BC: [ ] I do. BR: [ ] You have long history with them. BR: [ ] Yeah, that round is very fun to teach. And then in turn that around. Oh, I'm so happy that came to me.
And I heard, oh, some years ago that folks were singing it at Oberlin College, and they called it the Moon Instructional Round. BC: [ ] That's great. When you know, you travel the world and you bumped back into something that you gave birth to. Isn't that nice? BR: [ ] did you say a musical epidemic? Oh, I see. BR: [ ] a good way.
BC: [ ] long before this stupid pandemic I became obsessed. Uh, with epidemiology not as a science of biology, but as a science of human behavior. And I've always felt that at least my work was in part about creating of viral responses to good things. So, like music, like rounds, like great stories, that mutate along the way. BR: [ ] Hmm. BR: [ ] That made, that reminds me. So, I was thinking about your podcast. And you know, so I wrote a song called All of Us , Um, it's just happens to be another round and it's, it goes,.
And yeah, you'd ask how did I start sharing my songs? In the world. And that really happened out here in New Mexico, I just had the fortunate circumstance to get involved with a group of women out here who were building their own moon lodge. I mean, that's, that's what, one of the things attracted me Taos in the first place. The women were all doing these fabulous things. They were building their own houses.
They were making their own sacred spaces. They were gardening, they were hiking in the mountains, they were going on, wood runs, they were playing softball. So, I got in with this group of women and helped build this moon lodge. And actually, it's next door to where I am.
Uh, it has above ground. It has a low dome. BC: [ ] Rammed earth, Yes! BR: [ ] Tires around with earth adobe plaster finishing, and they were very interested in bringing different mythologies into.
Creating art around them recreating some of the myths and singing songs that, that had emerged from women's spiritual movement, some of which were like the earth, the sea, the fire, that, that kind of thing. And I it's. So I, when I started writing songs, I brought the songs to that group and I, one of them was a around for winter solstice because we always had a winter solstice ceremony and stayed up all night singing, doing gifts, playing drums dancing, and my song went.
BC: [ ] So I have to say that little story resonates through all of your work. The sacred feminine, the obvious, and the sometimes-buried myths, that inform I think the vital spirit of the world. If we take them to heart it really reminds me of that song of yours, Old Woman Juniper? BR: [ ] Old Woman Juniper. BC: [ ] A line in that if you don't mind my quoting it,.
And I'm wondering if you could you say where that comes from? Because it just, it meant a lot to me, but its part of your story. Their small and they last hundreds of years. And I remember once when I was out camping near Bandolier Monument, that's about a hundred miles from here and I was by myself, and I had set my tent up.
And had my little tent, my little campfire, and I was in a little circle of Juniper trees. And sunset came, and went, and it started to darken with dusk and all of a sudden, I had the unmistakable impression that the junipers were leaning in a little slightly.
And so, I have a feeling for junipers. And also, as I've gotten older, I look older, and I have wrinkled skin. And if you know anything about Juniper trees, their bark starts hanging off of them. But if you've ever had a Juniper in a fire and you've split a piece of Juniper, the center of it is dark pink. And so, I wrote this song to compare myself to an, a Juniper tree that was growing older and feeling myself, even though, uh, and going through my years, just being in the bright blue sky out here and still having a lot of passion in my heart.
BC: [ ] I felt that. BR: [ ] Okay. BC: [ ] I have some of those old bark pieces too, hanging off me. So, I really resonated with that. One of the things I think that this moment in human history, I guess you'd say is that the connection among and between people that we have cut off in some cases because of the pandemic and the interconnectedness, I wrote a song called Six Feet, which really asked the question: Maybe six feet is what we need, to understand , but the way we can act basically.
We're so unconscious about our fellow humans often. This was sort of early in the pandemic in the six feet thing, and I remember looking people in the eye much more than in the old days. But mortality, which I think that Old Woman Juniper is about can obviously it's, it's a little scary, but it can also be a gift.
William: [ ] One of the things that I often do is ask people to reflect on are stories that really personify the work, or the energy that you've been investing in in your life. I'm wondering if one rises up. BR: [ ] There, there are many a lot of times am thinking about my community, my family, and how to make useful songs, songs that can be sung ceremonies and celebrations and songs that will encourage. I wrote a song for Kate Munger, who was talking about before the woman that founded the threshold choir.
And now it's sung a lot at celebrations, and commemorations for women who've been important in communities. And it goes:. So, that comes to mind. And another story I can tell you about a song that came to me that that's useful for community. The story of this song comes from a little village called Questa, is just north of where I live about 20 miles. And it's, it's where my wife lives and where her family has been for a long time.
And their parish church was built in the s and it started crumbling. I mean it, it was adobe, and it was getting to the place where it was unsafe to be for people to worship in. And the diocese wanted to tear it down and just put up. Yeah, like a cafeteria kind of modern building. And the villagers got together and decided no, they wanted to rebuild their church in their traditional style. And so, they raised money. Some of them improve their skills in woodworking; people knew how to mud plaster, and they raised this beautiful gem of a church that would just take your breath away when you walk inside.
And when I saw it, I came home that evening and I, most of the song emerged right away and we sang it at a dedication. Here in the mystery of this place, we stand.
BC: [ ] So, did they sing that song when they opened the church? BR: [ ] We sang it. It just happened to be at a time when several of us were gathering for a yearly retreat that we do at the Lama Foundation , which is near here. And about 20 of us went to the church for, an informal dedication. One of the places that has inspired me the most is the time I spent in New Zealand.
So often, my work introduces me to people who have a sense of spirit in the world like yourself. And in Maori culture, spirit is manifest in very powerful ways. And I'm assuming it's a vital place in the community now. BR: [ ] Oh, yes. BC: [ ] Yeah,. BR: [ ] This all happened maybe three years ago. Of course, it, they had no, one's been able to meet there during this. BR: [ ] it's a beloved place in the community. BC: [ ] What a special story.
That's great. So, I just have to say that now you don't sit around listening to your music all the time, in one fell swoop. I for the last week have. What's coming up at me is a cosmology, of here's the blessings we've received from the earth and the cosmos, and here are different ways we can celebrate it, and reveal it, through song.
The form of the song, the words of the song, the voices and the songs. So, it has been, I would almost say a sort of a blessing to me to share it all in one big gulp, and I really appreciated it. Am I right in saying that you, do have a worldview of cycles, and of what we need to learn from the natural world and the interconnectedness and humility that we need to bring to our relationship to the path we walk on this earth is that, does that make sense?
Does that resonate? BR: [ ] Articulated very well. I yes, and going back to being in the music, when I'm receiving writing and working on a song, I am trying my very best to make the song, carry the feelings that inspired the song. So that when you sing the song, you go to the place that, that I felt.
I really try hard to do that. I have a song called, Eve's Longing that came out of an, just an experience I had specifically being in Baja and the Sea of Cortez and the Bay of Conception. And again, and just as evening fell -- and it was just right after sunset, I was sitting on the beach and looking out at this little bay and there were two fishing boats anchored there. And there were two pelicans sitting on the gunnel. And they were just looking at the sky as it deepened blue beyond the mountains.
And I just wished that I could be in their world and be, beyond the limitations of my my human mind, and just be a part of the flow, the rhythm, the conversation that everything else in the natural world around me was experiencing. And I want to play at least the beginning. As in Eve, Adam and Eve who had to leave the garden. BC: [ ] That was one of my favorites. I have to tell you. Maybe because during the pandemic sitting on that bench, I found myself envying the water birds.
And it's so interesting because I'm sure you're aware we're pelican central here for a certain part of the year. And they in particular, because their characters are so strong and powerful. And so I thank you for sharing that song. That put the hair on my neck right up, really. We're doing our best to make sure our content is useful, accurate and safe.
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